tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post115238886177584980..comments2024-03-28T08:50:02.164-04:00Comments on Gay Conservative Liberal: The truth about Islam, and me...Gay Conservative Liberalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16794634321370660899noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152546674340097562006-07-10T11:51:00.000-04:002006-07-10T11:51:00.000-04:00I view the situation as akin to Nazi Germany.There...I view the situation as akin to Nazi Germany.<BR/><BR/>There were individuals such as Oskar Schindler, and other "righteous gentiles" who took action to stop the Nazis - just as there are some instances of Muslims working against Islamofacism, today. However, there was no mass movement to prevent Nazism and the Holocaust. Most Germans just sat idly by and allowed a genocide to occur, while doing NOTHING to stop it - just as moderate Muslims sit back and do nothing to stop what Islamofacists are doing in their name. Those Germans were complicit in the Holocaust, by allowing it to happen.<BR/><BR/>The moderate Muslims who sit back and allow Islamists to hijack their religion are just like the Germans who sat back and allowed the Nazis to hijack the German nation.Red Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152532737810682982006-07-10T07:58:00.000-04:002006-07-10T07:58:00.000-04:00btw,aside from your amazing legal precept of immed...btw,<BR/>aside from your amazing legal precept of immediate guilt by association, did you critical mind ever cause you to ask WHY the moderates aren't speaking up...or you just assume their all guilty anyway, and thus why bother? <BR/><BR/>an excerpt from the Canadian Muslim Associations press release upon the toronto arrests was pasted on to this blog, as one excample of what muslims ARE doing (and there are plenty more, but those blinded by their pre-determined conclusions are too lazy to look for it). not one comment by the chorus of self-righteous chorus of "prove yourselves"...or is it that what you are really after is a renunciation of their faith?...at least be honest about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152531191088906532006-07-10T07:33:00.000-04:002006-07-10T07:33:00.000-04:00"It's not blaming the victim to ask the accomplice..."It's not blaming the victim to ask the accomplice of a killer to defend himself. He may succeed in convincing us that he was not an accomplice, but an innocent bystander, and if so that's fine. But it's reasonable to insist that he prove it, and not just ask us to assume it. "<BR/><BR/>...the ultimate conclusion of your logic is that, if the basic policy perscription is kill the fanatics, then so too must all the moderates be killed if they don't wear banners, give up their jobs and stand 24/7 in the streets shouting "not me, not me". So have the courage of your conviction to extend the argument to your logical conclusion...lets kill all one billion muslims. for you to shy away from the only logical conclusion to your essay is cowardice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152510051251546842006-07-10T01:40:00.000-04:002006-07-10T01:40:00.000-04:00Some people think that I am blaming the victim whe...Some people think that I am blaming the victim when I say something like:<BR/><BR/>"Where are the protesters carrying banners saying, The Jihadis Are Wrong?"<BR/><BR/>I don't think so. We're talking about violent Islamist killers, and these are the people who <I>did</I> commit 9/11, and who are killing innocents in Iraq today. <BR/><BR/>These people claim to be the voice of all true Islam, and they are committing terrible crimes. If the people they claim to speak and act for do <I>not</I> say, no, we're the moderate muslims, and thereby distance themselves from the extremists, why is it unreasonable for us to fail to distinguish between them? If we can justly accuse the extremists of terrible crimes, why don't those who put no distance between themselves and the killers share the culpability?<BR/><BR/>It's not blaming the victim to ask the accomplice of a killer to defend himself. He may succeed in convincing us that he was not an accomplice, but an innocent bystander, and if so that's fine. But it's reasonable to insist that he <I>prove</I> it, and not just ask us to assume it.Steve T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12075948665118760070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152493517697060342006-07-09T21:05:00.000-04:002006-07-09T21:05:00.000-04:00"but still keep the good things in life like video..."but still keep the good things in life like video games and comic books"<BR/><BR/>i'm with you budAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152492364807009192006-07-09T20:46:00.000-04:002006-07-09T20:46:00.000-04:00Anonymous;Yes, all of your solutions and ideas are...Anonymous;<BR/><BR/>Yes, all of your solutions and ideas are good. I think that our main goal should be alternative energy, reduce oil usage but still keep the good things in life like video games and comic books and other things, but reduce oil usage so we have no REASON to engage the middle east, then just pull out of it and leave it be.<BR/><BR/>Some muslim fanatics hate that we supposedly desecrate their holy land. If it were up to me and it were feasible, I would pull all U.S. presence out of the middle east.<BR/><BR/>Once their oil runs out or it is replaced with some other source of power, the middle east will cease to have much practical importance in world affairs anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152490621457503562006-07-09T20:17:00.000-04:002006-07-09T20:17:00.000-04:00Wow, I am pretty much in agreement on most issues ...Wow, I am pretty much in agreement on most issues with Conservative Liberal!!<BR/><BR/>I would like to add that I do not believe it is up to US to "solve Palestine," so to speak. I also do not think there will be peace in our lifetime - as I wrote on my blog.<BR/><BR/>http://cultureforall.blogspot.com/2006/07/is-peace-possible.htmlRed Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152487934881393162006-07-09T19:32:00.000-04:002006-07-09T19:32:00.000-04:00Anonymous, I think you're on to something. Believe...Anonymous, I think you're on to something. Believe it or not I agree with all your points and your priorities, chief among them:<BR/><BR/>-- Darfur<BR/>-- gas tax<BR/>-- Afghanistan<BR/><BR/>I don't think we should pull out of Iraq, though. We're 2,500+ men into this and it would be a disservice to their sacrifice to say "ok, nevermind, this is y'alls problem." The money being spent there is ridiculous and if we're going to hang Bush by the balls for bringing us there, Kerry and Clinton need to be hung right with him.Gay Conservative Liberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16794634321370660899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152486475673727702006-07-09T19:07:00.000-04:002006-07-09T19:07:00.000-04:00- And that would explain another motive of why the...- And that would explain another motive of why the Arabs have 5 times attempted genocide against Israel - and keep trying. Even today the MB in Egypt are proposing a referendum on the peace treaty with Israel.<BR/><BR/>can you balance your quotes from the koran with some of the more rabid texts from christian scripture? <BR/><BR/>Oh, and poor israel. russians with blond hair show up on the shores of middle eastern palestine with the support of the western world as compensation for the holocaust, demand that the land be israel because god "promissed" it to the jews, and still today, successive israeli PM's cite scripture for their claim to the land.<BR/><BR/>Palestinians are their own worst enemy. But the historical perversion of justice that is israel versus palestine stands...and scripture on the jewish side is as culpable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152486126936727622006-07-09T19:02:00.000-04:002006-07-09T19:02:00.000-04:00"I'll ask you directly; what do you think should b..."I'll ask you directly; what do you think should be done?...I'm less interested in the REASON behind the solution, and more interested in whether or not you even have any idea yourself how to address the situation."<BR/><BR/>Fine, I'll ignore the essay, and come straight to the conclusions, in no particular rank order of importance:<BR/><BR/>- progressively over the next 5 years, put a significant tax on gasoline...we still pay some of the lowest prices for gas in the world, and friedman is right, in the process we are funding both sides of the war on terror; if we're truly at "war" then the american population can bare the collective sacrifice; use the proceeds for massive R&D that would progressively reduce and then mitigate our dependence on middle east oil and trash the price of oil globally<BR/><BR/>- then, walk away from our steadfast support of saudi arabia; we've supported that pathetic royal family dictatorship far too long; let the chips fall where they may (btw, we invaded the wrong country..we should have invaded saudi, not iraq, but thats another essay)<BR/><BR/>- pull out of iraq; we're spending how much ($1 billion a week? not sure)...let the iraqi's kill each other and find their own equilbrium...it took the lebanese 17 years...its the iraqis' problem, not ours, but they will solve it...and instead...<BR/><BR/>- re-allocate the funds and military to afghanistan and tracking down the ideologues...we messed up iraq, but can't find Osama...and we're the world's most powerful nation...how screwed up is that? the fanatics of al queda (and the like) can not be reasoned with...they must be eliminated<BR/><BR/>- use the rest of the money for domestic intelligence and, particularly, intelligence in europe...europe is a disaster waiting to happen, but domestic intelligence agencies in europe and the u.s. are woefully underequiped and tooled for the last war...we fire american gays from the military for being gay, but who happen to be arabic speakers, which we desparately need...how messed up is that?<BR/><BR/>- we can kill the ideologues, but only Muslims can turn against their message and their interpretation of Islam...we can't conclude this war without winning over the muslims themselves, and this battle will be between us and the ideologues...we need to suck it up, and blunt the message that resonates in recruiting...solve palestine (its solvable), chechnia, kashmir...ignoring the petulant means of the purported victims, each of these are sore open wounds grounded in historical fact..plus perception is reality...to bury our head in the sand is to lose<BR/><BR/>- unwind the tangle of mutual hyprocrisy...stop supporting rabid dictators throughout the muslim world and press for true free speach, followed by progressive democracy institutions can be created and deepened (not "instant" democracy as in the recipe of Iraq)...force this on the dictators...tell the mute torn center of the muslim world that we are behind lifting their oppression...but, with one condition, they keep their norms, whatever the evolve to be, for themselves<BR/><BR/>- massive funding of state educational systems to replace the madrasas in pakistan<BR/><BR/>- solve darfur, dont just talk about it...intervene...lets show some backbone and demonstrate we are for whats right<BR/><BR/>- repatriation of any muslim in the western world who can't live by the constitution and laws of the land, and who wont work within that framework to advocate their right of free speech in what they think societal norms should be<BR/><BR/>- kick out all the foreign imams from mosques in canada, u.s. and europe...massive funding at harvard for home grown ones (yes, the same harvard that receives money from bin laden's relatives)...naive to think that religion will ever go away...in america, it keeps making a comeback, so lets deal with it<BR/><BR/>- showcase positive role models among muslims...they are everywhere, in sport, music, arts, business...spin, p.r., madison avenue...but let the role model muslims do the spinning (and yes, for you ignorant out there, there are many role model ones)<BR/><BR/>Maybe its not the right set of solutions, and maybe some need to be emphasized over others. But it will have to be a multi-prong approach. No easy solutions, and, from a historical perspective, all threats to human civilization have, over the centuries, passed. This one will too...and then be replaced by another.<BR/><BR/>So yes, I have thought about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152486071974625782006-07-09T19:01:00.000-04:002006-07-09T19:01:00.000-04:00Miss R, thanks for sparking more debate on this bl...Miss R, thanks for sparking more debate on this blog...and the recos on Mid East gay blogs is great. Am enjoying some of these..great resource.Gay Conservative Liberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16794634321370660899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152484053659012592006-07-09T18:27:00.000-04:002006-07-09T18:27:00.000-04:00"...from your blog, one can deduce that your choic..."...from your blog, one can deduce that your choice is lets kill all muslims everywhere and thereby solve our problems?<BR/><BR/>Well, you complain of him making generalizations about Muslims, yet he never actually said we should kill all muslims."<BR/><BR/>No, i did not state that he made such a statement. I stated that such conclusion could be a logical deduction of his sweeping one-size-fits-all simplistic observations of Muslims and Islam.<BR/><BR/>There is a clear distinction there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152483934265882982006-07-09T18:25:00.000-04:002006-07-09T18:25:00.000-04:00"So I hate Islam."But do you hate Muslims? And if ..."So I hate Islam."<BR/><BR/>But do you hate Muslims? And if so, where, exactly, do you draw the boundry of your definition of Muslim?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152483863810881012006-07-09T18:24:00.000-04:002006-07-09T18:24:00.000-04:00"some Muslims in Europe ARE calling for shariah la..."some Muslims in Europe ARE calling for shariah laws, at least for Muslim communities, and the "right" to do all the things coming with that, and express their distaste for gays, secularism, and other things they get cranky over. There ARE some who like the idea of muslim theocracy. So why do they live in a non-muslim theocracy when there are plenty out there to choose from?"<BR/><BR/>Amen. I agree with you. I'd be the first to donate $10,000 to charter an B-777 and ship anyone from this country who can't buy into basic national consensus values. <BR/><BR/>Thats not my argument. My argument is against sweeping (false) generalizations that contribute nothing to debate but exposure of underlying bigotry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152483725214108562006-07-09T18:22:00.000-04:002006-07-09T18:22:00.000-04:00"Is there a single Muslim nation that is even tole..."Is there a single Muslim nation that is even tolerant towards gay people, other than Lebanon (where they are barely tolerant)?<BR/><BR/>No.<BR/><BR/>I think that is proof in and of itself."<BR/><BR/>So by your stretch of logic, miss r, every society that is not tolerant toward gays is therefore a society where "large swaths" of those people call for the beheading of gays?<BR/><BR/>Either you agree with the above statement, which is your logic, or back to the basics: prove your statement that "large swaths" of the people of Islam are expressly calling for the beheading of gays.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152483283263297612006-07-09T18:14:00.000-04:002006-07-09T18:14:00.000-04:00kittynboi:Agreed with you except for one bit.There...kittynboi:<BR/><BR/>Agreed with you except for one bit.<BR/><BR/>There are pockets of gay sections in the US where there MAY be calls for Sharia law in the future - such as Dearborn, Michigan, and parts of Brooklyn and Queens.<BR/><BR/>But we'll see.Red Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152482619241899362006-07-09T18:03:00.000-04:002006-07-09T18:03:00.000-04:00First, commenting on the post itself; Christians a...First, commenting on the post itself;<BR/><BR/><I> Christians aren't boarding buses and planes to blow themselves up. </I><BR/><BR/>Not a LOT of them, but it does happen in various ways, although they're not as in to the suicide part. But in the third, there's plenty of violence from christians. Some areas of India occasionally have to put up with rampaging christians attacking people and destroying statues and the like. Christian violence isn't as widespread as Muslim violence, since it got a lot of it out of it's system in the past, but arguably its more common in America than Muslim based violence. I mean, we had 9/11 and the bombing in 1993, the first WTC one, but Muslims in the U.S. generally aren't violent, probably because they know the current climate will be VERY unforgiving to any overt public radicalism like they express in other parts of the world. <BR/><BR/>I can't imagine a Muslim holding the kind of signs at a protest that the muslims in Europe held during the danish cartoon controversy in America.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>But seriously, people, if you're more scared of Christians than Muslims please pass me that crack you're smoking. It sounds real good.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, the muslims have ZERO chance of getting sharia passed in the U.S. They have a better chance of outbreeding european liberalism, but any kind of similar attempts in the U.S. would result in them being made second class citizens, or third class. Is that good or bad? I'm honestly not sure. I don't want anyone to be made a second class citizen, but when extremist muslims, the KKK, and similar hatemongers are forced to be silent about their views, I can't say it bothers me too much.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Now, for you Anonymous;<BR/><BR/><I>...economically, you're correct. but in the countries they left, they were not the victims of racism itself...</I><BR/><BR/>The thing is, some Muslims in Europe ARE calling for shariah laws, at least for Muslim communities, and the "right" to do all the things coming with that, and express their distaste for gays, secularism, and other things they get cranky over. There ARE some who like the idea of muslim theocracy. So why do they live in a non-muslim theocracy when there are plenty out there to choose from?<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>...from your blog, one can deduce that your choice is lets kill all muslims everywhere and thereby solve our problems?</I><BR/><BR/>Well, you complain of him making generalizations about Muslims, yet he never actually said we should kill all muslims.<BR/><BR/>While the author of this blog offers no clear solution to the problems involved with Islam and the middle east, you aren't offering any either. I'll ask you directly; what do you think should be done? Forego any discussion of historical perspective, racism, history, etc. etc. I'm less interested in the REASON behind the solution, and more interested in whether or not you even have any idea yourself how to address the situation.<BR/><BR/>I have no idea how to do it, except perhaps a worldwide ban on all religions.<BR/><BR/>Accuse the blog author of not being compassionate all you want. Fortunately, I make no claims of having compassion, and as such, have no ill feelings of being told I have no compassion for Muslims, because I don't have any.<BR/><BR/>Islam is a religion. By it's very nature it is anti gay, as are all religions or spiritual systems.<BR/><BR/>It's a religion, and I hate all religions.<BR/><BR/>So I hate Islam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152482280757273952006-07-09T17:58:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:58:00.000-04:00Is there a single Muslim nation that is even toler...Is there a single Muslim nation that is even tolerant towards gay people, other than Lebanon (where they are barely tolerant)?<BR/><BR/>No.<BR/><BR/>I think that is proof in and of itself.<BR/><BR/>As far as public opinion polls, I am sure they are out there, but I basically have judged the Muslim world by their actions.<BR/><BR/>Go to http://gaymiddleeast.com/ and tell me that Islam is not PARTICULARLY intolerant towards gays.Red Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152481671252517472006-07-09T17:47:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:47:00.000-04:00Lady, you STILL have not proven your statement. Yo...Lady, you STILL have not proven your statement. You make a statement, you need to live by it. Where is the PRECISE FACTUAL basis of you very precise statement you made about "large swaths" of the people of Islam specifically "CALLING FOR" beheadings of gays?<BR/><BR/>And if Ahmedinajad has support, is that solely or mostly on the basis that he advocated beheading of gays, and no other issue? Prove that. Oh, and btw, in Iran they hang them, not behead them. Get your facts straight.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"I see not a single protest by Muslims - except in Lebanon - demanding gay rights and gay equality."<BR/>Again, what naivete and ignorance...miss r, most Muslim countries other than Lebanon are dictatorships...you wont see many protests against anything they state does not want. Oh, and btw, the USA has over the years supported and deepened many of these very dictatorships or authoritarian regimes, and the very brutality by which they perpetuate power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152481603295979692006-07-09T17:46:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:46:00.000-04:00BTW: The Guardian shows that Ahmedinajda has a 70%...BTW: The Guardian shows that Ahmedinajda has a 70% approval rating.<BR/><BR/>http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1801867,00.htmlRed Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152481539736226832006-07-09T17:45:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:45:00.000-04:00Anon 2:38 pm:I never said Americans are perfect. ...Anon 2:38 pm:<BR/><BR/>I never said Americans are perfect. I never said "only Muslims are bad."<BR/><BR/>I said that the brutality of Islamists and the corresponding complicity of Muslims to this brutality (by their silence) is on a scale that is not seen in the West.<BR/><BR/>Of course there are bad Americans, because no nation is perfect, and no group of people are perfect.<BR/><BR/>But here is the difference between America/the west and the Muslim world. The soldiers in question will be tried and possibly convicted for their actions. In the Muslim world, nothing at all would be done to those who rape/murder a woman. In fact, four male witnesses are needed to prove a rape even happened.<BR/><BR/>In short, the gulf of level of brutality is an ocean wide.Red Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152481142193411012006-07-09T17:39:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:39:00.000-04:00See the poll I linked to (Pew Global - not known t...See the poll I linked to (Pew Global - not known to be a biased source) - showing how large percentages of Muslims believe terror is acceptable, and in some countries, this is a majority of Muslims.<BR/><BR/>I should add that Ahmedinajad has public support. So - he beheads gay people, and that does not take away public support. Kind of shows you the thinking.<BR/><BR/>I am not aware of public opinion polls per se, but at minimum, I see not a single protest by Muslims - except in Lebanon - demanding gay rights and gay equality.<BR/><BR/>It's sad and sick and just as the Germans during Nazi Germany were responsible for their inaction, so are Muslims responsible for their inaction in taking a stand against terror and bigotry.Red Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152481126701340052006-07-09T17:38:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:38:00.000-04:00"(CNN) -- Four U.S. soldiers in Iraq are charged w..."(CNN) -- Four U.S. soldiers in Iraq are charged with participation in the "rape and murder of a young Iraqi woman and three members of her family," the U.S. military said Sunday. <BR/><BR/>A fifth soldier is accused of dereliction of duty for failing to report the offenses.<BR/><BR/>.....Prosecutors have said Green shot and killed an Iraqi man, woman and child before raping a young female from the same family and killing her. <BR/><BR/>A Justice Department affidavit says Green and other soldiers planned to rape a young woman who lived near the checkpoint they manned in Mahmoudiya. <BR/><BR/>The affidavit says three soldiers allegedly accompanied Green into the house, and another soldier was told to monitor the radio while the assault took place.<BR/><BR/>The affidavit says Green shot the woman's relatives, including a girl of about 5; raped the young woman; then fatally shot her. <BR/><BR/>Soldiers are quoted in the affidavit as telling investigators that Green and his companions then set the family's house afire, threw an AK-47 rifle used in the killings into a canal and burned their bloodstained clothing"<BR/><BR/>....Ah, but only Muslims are bad, so surely these acts on the part of Americans can somehow be justified or explained by stress under duress or something the Muslims themselves must have provoked?<BR/><BR/>By-the-way, God Bless America for its justice system and free press, which still strive for truth when bigots on blogs like this perpetuate anything but.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152480408016414642006-07-09T17:26:00.000-04:002006-07-09T17:26:00.000-04:00"If by "large swaths" you refer to government acti..."If by "large swaths" you refer to government actions supported by locals, then just go look to Somalia or Iran."<BR/><BR/>Actually, it was YOU who made reference to "large swaths", and you specifically stated that in the context of the people of the religion...well the people of that religion exist from morocco eastward thru to malaysia and china...so why just somalia and iran...you made a statement, back it up...prove that in every muslim country "large swaths" are specifically advocating beheadings.<BR/><BR/>And re iran and somalia, you equate the absence of public outrage on what happen to gays as equating the entire society "advocating" beheadings. Uh, sorry miss r, but these are authoritarian, if not totalitarian regimes... since when is there public outrage tolerated over anything except what the state wants? <BR/><BR/>naive ignorant people like you are dangerousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30051204.post-1152474951189012572006-07-09T15:55:00.000-04:002006-07-09T15:55:00.000-04:00If by "large swaths" you refer to government actio...If by "large swaths" you refer to government actions supported by locals, then just go look to Somalia or Iran.<BR/><BR/>After gays were slaughtered, there was no local outrage of it. Just complete acceptance and support of the governments doing it.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and the Pew Research Center has a recent poll of Islam support for terror.<BR/><BR/>http://pewresearch.org/obdeck/?ObDeckID=26Red Tulipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546144713477594777noreply@blogger.com